by Nils Osmar. Updated June 4, 2022
AMPK and mTOR are enzymatic processes. When one is on, the other is usually switched off.
AMPK supports longevity; mTOR supports muscle growth and a strong immune response. Both are important, but evidence from animal studies suggests we should have AMPK “on” most of the time.
My goal is have AMPK activated (and mTOR off), at least 3/4 of the time. There are 168 hours in a week. So I want AMPK switched “on” for at least 126 hours. This still gives me lots of opportunities to activate mTOR.
When is AMPK on?
AMPK becomes activated at night when we’re sleeping, though it may take a few hours for it to activate if we eat a huge meal right before bed, particularly if the meal has lots of protein, or leucine, or high glycemic carbs. If we eat our last meal at 7 pm, depending on how much protein, carbohydrates and leucine was in it, mTOR will be activated by the meal, then take a few hours to die down. At some time during the night, the mTOR “fire” will bur out, moving us back into AMPK.
When we wake up, we’ll be in an AMPK state, and will stay in it till we eat our first meal. If we skip breakfast and don’t eat till lunch, that can extend our time in AMPK. This is one of the benefits of eating two meals a day. If we skip breakfast and lunch and just eat one meal a day, we’ll spend most of our day in AMPK. David Sinclair does this; he eats only one meal a day. If his meal has a three hour window, this means that that he’s fasting 21 out of every 24 hours, for a total of 147 hours. Then his one meal is largely plant-based. So he’s almost always in an AMPK state.
Too Much AMPK Activation?
I was vegan in the past. This kept me in an AMPK state almost all the time.
There were some benefits at first. I lost weight and my energy improved. But within a few months, I started feeling exhausted. I first lost weight and got rail-thin, but then I developed insulin resistance and started putting on belly fat. I lost muscle; and developed mood and memory problems. I also got sick a lot during my vegan years. I’d catch every cold and flu bug because my immune system was no longer working very well.
All of these problems went away once I added some animal-based foods back into my diet. Some people may be able to thrive on vegan diets; I could not, no matter how many tweaks I made to the diet. I learned from this experience that I needed some animal protein to activate mTOR. It simply was not happening, regardless of how much plant-based protein I ate, when I was on a vegan diet.
Balancing mTOR and AMPK
As I mentioned above, I’m trying to have AMPK activated for (around) 126 hours in a week.
I work out three days a week. To build muscle and maximize the benefits of mTOR activation while minimizing the possible pro-aging effects, I try to focus my mTOR activation on my workout days. Dr. Rhonda Patrick has said that the “safe” time to activate mTOR is right after working out; this pushes the mTOR activation into our muscles and should prevent it from having a pro-aging impact on the body.
When I Activate AMPK
- If I sleep 8 hours a night and AMPK is activated for 6 of them, that’s 42 hours of AMPK activation per week (6 hours/night x 7 nights=42)…
- To reach 126 hours of AMPK, I need to find a way to activate it for 84 more hours.
- I do two 38 hour fasts in a week, so, that’s 76 hours of fasting. Adding 76 plus 42 brings me to 118 hours.
- So I need to find a few more hours of AMPK activation in a week. I can do get there by fasting till 1 p.m. on Thursdays.
- MONDAYS – WORKOUT DAY 1. I work out fasted, then have a high protein animal-based breakfast. I usually eat eggs scrambled in with sardines and oysters for breakfast, along with broccoli and tomatoes. My later meals on these three days are high in protein and animal-based too.
- TUESDAYS – FASTING DAY 1. I do a 38 hour fast (from Monday night through Wednesday morning)
- WEDNESDAYS – WORKOUT DAY 2. High protein animal based meals. See Monday.
- THURSDAYS – FASTING TILL 1 P.M. I usually get up around 7, fast till noon, then have an 8 hour eating window.
- FRIDAYS – WORKOUT DAY 3. High protein animal based meals. See Monday.
- SATURDAYS – FASTING DAY 2. I do a 38 hour fast (from Friday night through Sunday morning.
- SUNDAYS – No fasting or working out. “My day off.”
“What Would David Do?”
David Sinclair is (in my estimation) a brilliant man. He has recently shifted to eating just one meal a day (though he does say that he snacks on nuts and seeds during the day if he gets hungry.) He’s not vegan, but his diet trends in that direction. He eats a mainly plant-based diet with a very small amount of animal-based food. He recently gave up red meat completely.
His approach appears to be based on keeping AMPK “on” constantly, keeping mTOR “off”, keeping IGF-1 (a human growth hormone) low, and avoiding animal-based foods as much as possible.
I can see the logic of his approach, and I wish him success with it. What he’s doing would likely be a far better approach than what most Americans are doing. But for me, his approach would be too much AMPK activation and too little mTOR, and could in theory push my IGF-1 too low.
James Clement, author of “The Switch” — a book about switching between AMPK and mTOR — is one advocate of activating AMPK, but has pointed out that if our mTOR is too low and our AMPK is too high, we’ll eventually start wasting away.
Sinclair’s approach is about always trying to keep AMPK low; my approach (more similar to James Clement’s), is about cycling between AMPK and mTOR. Clement cycles from month to month; I cycle back and forth several times a week.
The IGF-1 Question
Eating animal-based foods can increase both mTOR and IGF-1. IGF-1 is a growth hormone. Increasing it could, in theory, shorten our lives.
But it’s important to be aware that IGF-1 can go too low, and there are serious dangers in allowing that to happen. According to this study, if IGF-1 goes too low, the result is brain atrophy, loss of grey matter and a greater risk of Alzheimer’s.
Lower serum levels of IGF-1 are associated with an increased risk of developing AD dementia and higher levels with greater brain volumes even among middle-aged community-dwelling participants free of stroke and dementia. Higher levels of IGF-1 may protect against subclinical and clinical neurodegeneration.”
- The phenomenon revealed in this study is one of the reasons that I like to cycle between periods of fasting (which lowers IGF-1) and periods of eating high protein meals which include some animal protein.
- There’s no benefit (to my mind) in living longer if it’s at the expense of our brain health.
- This page has more information about my current protocol: https://newlifelongevity.com/the-rekindle-protocol-a-blueprint-for-reversing-aging-and-living-longer/
Here’s an interesting discussion between Peter Attia and Rhonda Patrick which touches on this issue:
Could I Be Over-Activating mTOR and IGF-1?
It’s possible that I could be. But I’m really don’t think so. The large amount of fasting I’m doing is keeping me “in AMPK” most of the time. The fasting is periodically lowering IGF-1. The high protein meals (on my exercise days) are making sure I have enough of both IGF-1 and mTOR activation.
I’m timing my IGF-1 and mTOR activation by eating high protein animal based foods primarily on my workout days. (I either fast or eat more plant-based on the other days.) It’s going into supporting muscle growth, which is what I want. I have zero interest in “unhealthy” life extension. I think I’m on the right track. Time will tell if I’m right.
- In a nutshell, I’m trying to strongly activate mTOR and IGF-1 three days a week.
- On those three days, I work out fasted in the morning, then eat a high protein, animal-based breakfast, lunch and dinner.
- To make sure I’m not getting too much mTOR activation, I do two 36 hour fasts every week; do some time restricted eating on feasting days; and have some days in which I eat plant-based, lower protein meals.
Is This a Good Approach for Others?
The honest answer is, I don’t know. I do know that it’s working for me. My memory is better than it was in my vegan days, and my mind is sharp and clear. I’ve also been able to add muscle while reducing body fat, and improving all of the usual biomarkers.
Anti-aging results can be difficult to measure. But some changes can be very visible. One tangible result of my cycling between AMPK and mTOR activation (by alternating between eating animal proteins and fasting) is that I’ve been able to gain muscle mass while simultaneously losing body fat.
The videos below show what I looked like in the fall of 2020 (left) and the spring of 2022 (right). I’m not saying that being able to put on some muscle proves that I’ll live longer; but that in the video on the left, I was drifting into sarcopenia; in the video on the right, I’ve been able to reverse it.
My A1C, cholesterol levels and other biomarkers have also all improved. I’ll be doing some epigenetic tests soon and will start posting those results here also when I do.